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IRC Archive / Freenode / #emacs / 2010 / June / 16 / 6
marioxcc
but is counter-intuitive on some major modes
in lisp, for example, it appears to follow no pattern
:S
twb
marioxcc: in lisp you should use C-M-x instead of M-x; the former is sexpr-wise
parolang
marioxcc: I think M-a and M-e look for sentences as long as the sentences end with two spaces following the punctuation.
marioxcc
hmm
ok
parolang
I don't know if lisp mode changes this.
marioxcc
twb: I tryed, but they are strage anyway
just maybe I'm damn too stupid
parolang
I think they usually try to preserve text-mode settings in programming modes for editing comments.
marioxcc
ok :)
parolang
It's actually a nice convention, IMHO, to end sentences with two spaces, and I've used that consistently. This helps the editor distinguish between periods that end sentences from periods that end abbreviations.
marioxcc
yeah, yeah
i use that in text-mode
but in programming modes i found M-a and M-e counterintuitive
twb
I don't use either of those chords at all.
marioxcc
haha
twb
parolang: I believe two-spaces-end-sentences is a customizable option
parolang
marioxcc: Like I said, use it within comments or doc strings.
twb
parolang: I also believe M-q auto-detects by default
marioxcc
parolang: oh, ok
parolang
twb: Yeah, it is. I struggled with it once when I was trying to format an ebook.
The ebook, of course, didn't respect the convention.
bpalmer
If you're careful to consistently use entities, your abbreviations will be clear.
marioxcc
twb: M-q is veru usefull, i use it very often
maybe 150 times a day
bpalmer
let's embed our code on the web.
twb
bpalmer: maybe we're using XML, so named entities are passé
marioxcc
passé?
twb
marioxcc: christ, man, get a dictionary
parolang
bpalmer: What about "Mr. and Mrs. Smith"? Do you want a npsp on either side of the "and"?
bpalmer
parolang: I don't believe they should be together.
parolang
I understand Mrs. Smith.
marioxcc
twb: sorry for the mispelling
twb
parolang: I think it's safe to say that conventions for fixed-width, ragged right, and justified text are different.
bpalmer
They keep secrets from one another, after all.
marioxcc
is about midnight and my fingers are a bit tired
parolang
heh
marioxcc
:(
parolang
twb: Well...I was thinking of plain text documents, but I think there's a code in unicode somewhere.
twb
parolang: there is.
Since Emacs renders it differently, I find it EXTREMELY annoying when I encounter it in web pages or pastebins or docbook output
bpalmer
it's not guaranteed to be predefined in standard xml, however.
twb
Oh, and ESPECIALLY in emaails
Some email clients will try to force double-spaced sentence endings by changing one of the two spaces to an nbsp
bpalmer: the codepoint is, though
bpalmer: assuming you don't change the encoding
legumbre
 ?
twb
So they would write something like "Good morning.  I have a large banana."
parolang
Hmm...my emacs renders that as a different-colored underscore.
twb
Or "if x:^J    print x" when they want to pretend that code isn't <PRE>
bpalmer
bananas are apparently an endangered fruit.
twb
bpalmer: due to overfishing?
bpalmer
blight, rather.
Bananas being identical clones of one another.
(Why couldn't episode III have been about the perils of a clone army exposed to disease? Much more interesting than a trade war)
twb
Maybe he was fu*king an economist at the time
proq
at least the plot didn't spiral into one ridiculous premise on top of another *cough* *lost*
jlf`
too soon!
twb
I haven't actually watched II or III
ep. I was so cringable that I couldn't stomach the idea
proq
#1 is not worth watching but #2 is
twb
Anyone watch I would get the impression that there were about twenty people in the universe, and they constantly interacted
proq
likewise with lost
or were you talking about lost?
jlf`
what this channel needs is some vuvuzelas
proq
ugh, flash needs to die
jlf`
(Action) suspects that proq may be ming the merciless irl
proq
now even my browser's music service uses flash. so my would-be-fast laptop is now overheating
time to find something better than blip.fm I guess
twb
proq: is HTML5 a lot better?
At least I can opt out of flash easily, by not installing it
proq
twb: hmm.. let me check
twb
But to remove gstreamer and HTML5 video from my browser, I have to recompile webkit, and that takes about six hours even on a quad-core 8GB RAM system
wgreenhouse
twb: part of the reason flash sucks so bad for video is that video streaming was never what it was meant to be doing, so HTML5 video would have to be really lousy not to be an improvement on it
twb
wgreenhouse: granted.
jbms
wgreenhouse: Eh, Flash does have a bunch of stuff specifically for video
twb
My point was that video in a browser is usually bandwidth-wasting, attention-wasting wank. Because flash sucks so hard, it's easier to avoid it than html5
jbms
wgreenhouse: Primarily, stuff for obfuscation
twb
And if I do need the video, I can usually just the URL and call mplayer on it.
jbms
I would say that in almost all cases, there is no need for visually embedding video into a webpage --- that a static image link that launches the video in a separate window/fullscreen would be sufficient
An exception might be something that tries to e.g. synchronize a set of presentation slides with the video
twb
jbms: for me, it would be fu*king IDEAL
jbms
well, you can scrape and then do that
have you seen get_flash_videos, btw?
it is one of the best such scripts I've seen so far
twb
No, but there are about eighty versions of that
I use youtube maybe once a quarter, so I don't care about doing it well
jbms
it's designed to be somewhat modular and support a large number of different sites
twb
Meh
proq
twb: I'm not getting any speed difference between html5 and flash with youtube on safari 5. *but* during this little test, firefox is using between 2x-5x the CPU events shown in TOP. looks like firefox is part of the problem on my end
twb
I remember the last video I viewed was some guy who had written an a11y phone app to do speech recognition and synthesis.
proq: last time I looked, firefox with flash and java and no .mozilla at all, opening about:blank, consumed 700MB of RAM immediately.
proq
yeah, and to think mozilla was even worse back in the day!
twb
That's the kind of laughability that makes me use webkit and opera as my fallback browsers
proq
or maybe firefox has caught up apopos bloatage
*apropos
jbms
HTML5 will probably fail because due to patent reasons browser vendors will never be able to just integrate an existing video framework that works, like mplayer/ffmpeg/vlc, and instead will reinvent the wheel with some crap that doesn't support much
hopefully mozilla will include a build option for just using ffmpeg or something, even if they don't enable it for their own provided builds
proq
I also noticed that running gmail in my browser is a sizeable part of the problem
if we can play high-performance 3D games in the browser, there's no reason why we need flash to have a decent video player
srbaker
GAR
i *so* hate working with xml
twb
proq: if you're playing games in a browser, something has gone horribly wrong
It's as retarded as a flight simulator in a spreadsheet
proq
twb: I'm not, just making a point
twb
jbms: well, webkit just uses gstreamer, so Ubuntu users will just do their normal "give me MP3" dance, and they'll have codecs for everything
proq
I haven't had time for games
jbms
Is gstreamer as good as vlc?
twb
gstreamer is from gnome, so I'm assuming it's crap
I don't run vlc because they seem less "just fu*king work" and more "support OS X and Windows, too"
proq
xine is good on ubuntu
srbaker
twb: thank you for that!
proq
on os x, I trade off between vlc and quicktime. each handles some formats better
nayankk
Guys, By default 'M-x compile' will start compilation on the directory, where the currently displayed file is stored.. Is there a way to set a default compilation directory, so that compilation will start from this default directory, no matter from where it is invoked/
jlf`
(Action) has yet to encounter anything vlc doesn't handle
proq
nayankk: M-x compile doesn't use a default directory. it uses the cwd of the file you are editintg
srbaker
jlf: same. although i have found a few movies where it lets the audio get out of sync, that quicktime handles better
jlf`
huh, never noticed that. although there are hotkeys to timeshift the audio in something like 50ms increments for synchronization with the video.
nayankk
proq: Yeah.. Is there a way to tell emacs to start from default directory, rather than the cwd of the file where I edit
proq: I mean, lets say I am editing in /home/nayan/WebKit/gtk/webkit, but when I invoke 'M-x compile', I want the compilation to start from /home/nayan..
jlf`
nayankk: see C-h v compile-command
proq
nayankk: additionaly, you can bind a new compile command such as: (global-set-key (kbd "<f9>") (lambda() (interactive)(compile "make -k blah blah")))
jlf`
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100615/NEWS01/306150004/Jesus-statue-destroyed-by-act-of-God
wgreenhouse
Zeus did it.
jlf`
zeus weighs in on christianity
curse wgreenhouse's fast fingers
wgreenhouse
let's make their holy men have a miracle-off with our holy men
and sell tickets
twb
nayankk: you do "make -C ~"
nayankk
proq: jif`: Thanks guys..
proq
$700,000? I'll replace it for half that
twb
proq: that includes the amphitheatre.
jlf`
guys don't worry it'll raise itself after 3 days
tasslehoff
I used xref before, and a nice feature was the dead code detection. Now I have to pay for xref myself, so I don't use it anymore. Any other packages that provide such niceties? Perhaps something in CEDET/ECB?
twb
valgrind?
Anything emacs-based would be a bit silly
proq
maybe now, but not in emacs 25
twb
At most, Emacs should just have a UI for valgrind or clang or something
tasslehoff
twb: color me silly then :) I liked the way xref did it :)
legumbre
here's hoping emacs 25 will feature JIT and elisp to iphone exporter
proq
emacs can't have anything to do with iphone until apple complies with GPLv3 terms
aside from editing source code, of course
jlf`
you can do anything at zombo.com^W^W^Win emacs 25. anything at all.
yes.
legumbre
maybe the next iphone dev agreement will only allow you to write code with XCode
quotemstr_
#emacs, what sort of easter egg should I put in Windows?
legumbre
quotemstr_: strace
quotemstr_
legumbre: Already exists as a sysinternals tool.
proq
legumbre: actually, I've contemplated an elisp to objective C compiler a number of times while using my zaurus
jlf`
quotemstr_: gpl poison pill!!
proq
legumbre: unfortunately, I'm not much of a compiler writer
quotemstr_: you're working on windows?
legumbre
proq: get to it!
proq
quotemstr_: embed emacs into it!
legumbre
(Action) reads about this sysinternals business
proq
legumbre: heh. my zaurus is getting old, so there's not much motivation to make one now
legumbre
proq: you can get an iPad and try it there!
proq
legumbre: try what?
legumbre
proq: the objc code generated by your compiler
quotemstr_
My Model M gets a first-class ticket. It rides in the front passenger seat where I can make sure it's safe.
proq
actually, my zaurus runs scheme and there are lots of scheme->c compilers out there
quotemstr_
My diploma, on the other hand, is buried under four or five layers of boxes.
Clearly, I have appropriate priorities.
legumbre
proq: yeah, I tried gambit on the iphone
jlf`
they may consider the M as a weapon
quotemstr_
Since Obj-C is a superset of C, wouldn't it make sense to use one of the existing Lisp-to-C compilers?
legumbre
proq: I couldn't get a repl to the actual device though :(
proq
that's what I said
quotemstr_: ^^
legumbre: you built emacs for the iPad?
legumbre_
(Action) shakes fist at ISP
proq
it's probably not that hard to build emacs for the iPad with the latest and greatest cocoa emacs
or just install ubuntu on the iPad :)
wgreenhouse
proq: and then put it in the app store? oh the irony
cocoa emacs for the ipad that is
proq
wgreenhouse: no, apple wouldn't approve it. you would have to share it with other means
nak
are there any good emacs books that anyone wants to recommend
proq
either that or you'd have to bribe apple to approve an elisp interpreter
twb
nak: the elisp intro and the emacs manual.
nak: both ship with GNU Emacs, and you can buy dead-tree versions from the FSF.
There is also the gnu and giraffe books from ORA (O'Reilley), but these are several major versions out of date.
proq
while we're on the subject of emacs on iPad, I want a pony :P
legumbre
quotemstr_: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx <-- is this it?
nak
twb: thanks
proq: emacs on the ;/
lisptastic
Anybody know how to view the source of an elisp function? C-h f doesn't show the file.
pgas
maybe you need to install the source? what does the first line say?
lisptastic
"interactive compiled lisp function"
naeu`
does anyone know how I switch off erc's autofocus behaviour?
pgas
lisptastic: hmm, I don't remember having ever seen this.
jlf`
lisptastic: does M-: (symbol-function 'your-function) return anything useful?
after (defun yowza (a) (+ a 4)), (symbol-function 'yowza) => (lambda (a) (+ a 4))
nak
I tried downloading a color-theme and modifying my .emacs according to the emacswiki, but it didn't work, I replaced it with zenburn and it worked
jlf`
but compiled functions may differ..
nak
the theme was color-theme-tango
proq
naeu`: autofocus behavior?
nak
:/