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IRC Archive / Freenode / #web / 2009 / December / 27 / 2
Windrose
Which, again, has little to do with the resolution.
pvvni
See above.
Windrose
What you are saying is "I assume they have a canvas of at least 960 pixels width". That has less to do with resolution than you think.
pvvni
Provide me an example where someone's resolution doesn't determine the minimum width that the page will be viewed in.
An example that is not, as I've said before, an outliser.
*outlier
Windrose
I think not. However, I can repeat: it has LITTLE to do with the resolution. If you set a with of 2000px then, even on an 800px wide screen, the canvas will be 2000px. They are not related. Thinking in terms of resolution is a fallacy - unless you are in kiosk mode, and not even then.
iAmStewart
downloading like all of the KDE libs just for one KDE based app -___- bah
Windrose
If you want to show the ENTIRE design, however, it is the CANVAS which matters - and you can't say anything more about a canvas than that, on a 1024 resolution, it will be LESS than that - somewhere. How much less is nearly impossible to say.
racetam_
Someone with 1920px width may want two browser windows side-by-side - or a word processor, movie, etc.
However I do agree 960px is just fine and the "outliers" have already learned to adapt
Windrose
racetam_: as long as you don't mind the 'outliers' being groups with accessibility difficulty and the increasingly popular mobile devices ....
racetam_
That's why I think web sites should avoid using words. I don't want to discriminate against the illiterate market.
Windrose
Heh.
racetam_
Unfortunately, text is inaccessible to some people, and images cost mobile users money, so I have to advise against both :)
Windrose
Well, when tossing strawmen, why not toss several.
Stephanie
Heh.
I prefer tossing snow. We have plenty.
racetam_
More seriously, no design is ideal at the full spectrum between tiny and huge
So it makes sense to cater to the majority, then do a second design if it's worth it
even w3c.org looks goofy at 480x320
puff
Anybody here work with podcasts,rss, itunes? I have an RSS that isn't working in itunes.
Unfortunately, I have to pm the url, there's a bidness guy involved who likes to google.
mahen23
i have been looking at some portfolios of web design groups
there are a lot
looks like the market of Web design/development is saturated in USA
how do you do it guys?
ATAN
Beat them off with a stick.
iAmStewart
quality > quantity
ATAN
Do it better or do it cheaper... and you win.
Obviously doing it cheaper is not the best option if you want food on the table.
mahen23
so the market is really saturated.....
PowerPan
hello
i want to make some input fields with a label
the label text should stand over the input field
you can see an example at www.meinvz.net
i don't know how to do this
Dorward_
PowerPan: <label for="...">...</label><br><input id="...">
PowerPan
no the text should stand in front of the input field
Dorward_
qFox
anyone know why safari 4.04win would ignore Last-Modified headers, which are accepted by firefox?
and/or how to fix it
eirikb
qFox: Safari sends last-modified-since but ignores the reply? oO
qFox
other way round..
eirikb
Huh?
The one that has the cache is the client, the one controlling it own cache is the client, how can it be any other way?
qFox
php sends the last-modified headers and the client should, uppon the next request of the same resource, send a if-modified-since
(sorry, not other way around)
eirikb
If the client should use its own cache feature is probably up to the client itself?
qFox
eirikb> my answer should've been "it doesnt send it at all".
my problem and confusion is that it does respond properly to the ones sent by apache. eg. it will cache images etc fine and send the ims
eirikb
qFox: Well I don't know. Maybe it understand it's PHP and don't bother? Since PHP is originally dynamical
qFox
hmmm. it could parse X-powered-by header, but i doubt that...?
other than that, the request looks like a regular file.
nothing php-ish
its a long shot, but i'll try to prevent the powered by header and see what happens
_Moe_
is it normal that a div: <div><img...</div> is slightly larger than the img in it? I am getting this annoying behaviour.. is there somthing I am missing.. shouldn't it just wrap the img exactly ?
qFox
_Moe_> removed padding, margin and border?
eirikb> looking at them
_Moe_
qFox: yes.. I think it might have to do with setting font-size on an outer div.. because setting font-size:0 on that div removes it..
but that is very strange still.. I should be able to do that..
qFox
target browser?
_Moe_
FF
qFox
yeah then it shouldnt happen.
_Moe_
I am floating the div left btw.. could you try that
qFox
do you have a testcase?
_Moe_
unfortantly I am having trouble sharing my ip..
eirikb
Sharing your IP?
If you are behind NAT then just use reverse SSH tunnelig to a remote server
_Moe_
well.. it would be allot easier if he could see the page in action.. rather than me posting it on a pastebin
hmm.. try this: http://62.84.91.4:8080/
it doesn't work for me thoguh... what do you mean reverse ssh ?
eirikb
ssh -R 8000:localhost:8080 myuser@myremotehost.com
_Moe_
is that possible with putty ( unfortantly I am on windows now)
eirikb
Maybe, haven't used windows in 4 years
But if 62.84.91.4 is your actual IP, you don't need to, since it's reachable
But since it seems to run CentOS, and you say you use Windows I guess it's not
_Moe_
are you able to ping the 62.84.91.4 ip succesfully?
eirikb
Yes
_Moe_
are you able to reach 8080 ?
eirikb
Or not ping
But nmap :)
_Moe_
hehe
eirikb
http://pastebin.com/d2dd6cacb
I guess it's blocking ICMP
_Moe_
yeah.. that's pretty crappy.. can I get around that some way ?
eirikb
Yes, by setting NAT settings to forward port 8080 to your computer, or use reverse ssh tunnel
_Moe_
that's not in my hands... I am using kind of mobile internet from a telecom provider
eirikb
Then ssh will do the trick
_Moe_
now I just need to figure out how to do it with putty
eirikb
Google it
First: Do you have a remote server with sshd?
_Moe_
i have a server where the site is running.. is that what you mean?
eirikb
Can you SSH to it?
_Moe_
yes
eirikb
Can't you just put your stuff up to that server to show us in the first place? :)
_Moe_
no.. because i've made changes and it's those that needs a look..
hehe
eirikb
You don't have dev mode on the server?
I don't do that either, I always keep dev and test envirments local and only through mercurial, and prod on servers. But then again, I can setup a reverse ssh tunnel in 3 secs :)
_Moe_
the ssh reverse.. could you explain what I need to do.. go in to server and do what?
and then from my computer do what?
eirikb
You don't go into the server. From your local computer you establish the connection to the server. Then there will be a reverse tunnel between the server and your computer. Then ssh will establish a listening socket on the remote server (specified port), so when someone connect to that port they will be forwarded to your local computer on a specified port there (could be the same, could be different, does
not matter)
_Moe_
ok.. i will try that..
Kingsy101
can someone in here help me with a IE6 css issue? or it seems to be that.. I havnt had any luck in #css so I thought I would ask in here see if someone had the browser on their pc and had a little spare time
Gothfunc
who knows unless you ask? ;o
eirikb
~ask to as
k
Kingsy101
:)
www.atozgolfer.com <--- it requires a username/password so use css/css
you can see the top.menu bar in IE6 is totally messed up (its height changes to the height of the button the rollover and the dropdown menu)
but it renders fine in all other browsers..
any ideas why?
Gothfunc
the menu at the top right is messed up in google chrome
Kingsy101
also sorry about the server speed, its a dev server so its not too fast.. but its CHEAP :)
Gothfunc - yea just ignore that menu, I havnt styled it for any browser yet
Gothfunc
ah ye
Kingsy101
I am talking about the top.menu UNDER the header but above the main content
Windrose
Kingsy101: you have 15 errors, some of them likely to impact on rendering (duplicate IDs, for example). I suggest you fix those first.
Kingsy101
15 errors? xhtml validation?
Windrose
Kingsy101: validation, yes.
Kingsy101
cool I will do :) good place to start
Windrose - you still around?
Gothfunc - or you?
I have made my page xhtml strict, the problem is still there but at least I don't have xhtml errors that could be causing it
Gothfunc
Kingsy101: i don't have ie6 on this machine, on linux
Kingsy101
ah
:(
anyone else?
Windrose
(Action) is on vacation and doesn't have her lab, so no IE.
Kingsy101
:) np
Gothfunc
hm, when i return from paypal to my site the session expires and i have to login again. is there a cure for this? having trouble finding answers on google
Dorward
Gothfunc: Find out why the session is expiring. We don't know what rules it uses to track the session.
Gothfunc
Dorward: i'm not really sure how to do that...
Dorward
Gothfunc: Look at the code that handles the sessions. Read the manual if it is a third party solution.
Gothfunc
Dorward: using cakephp. ok, but i'm still not exactly sure what i'm looking for. are you trying to say find out how long till the session expires?
cause i click buy now, then immediately return to the site and i have to login again
Dorward
Gothfunc: If the session is expiring because the user goes to paypal and then comes back, either the session time is insanely short, or there are other rules in play (such as expiring a session if the referer is from a different site).
Gothfunc
hmm i see
ok i'll check that out, thanks dorward :)
Windrose
Gothfunc: best bet is asking paypal tho.
Dorward
Probably nothing to do with paypal.
Windrose
Dorward: oh, I dunno. Anything involving that name which go wrong is reasonably their fault ;)
Gothfunc
Dorward: so if session.referer_check is set, it'll invalidate the session when you leave the site and come back?
_Moe_
I finally got the reason to why things where behaving as they were... http://pastebin.com/m72c298d
Dorward
Gothfunc: I don't know. I haven't touched PHP sessions in almost a decade, and I've never used CakePHP.
_Moe_
this was my original question: is it normal that a div: <div><img...</div> is slightly larger than the img in it? I am getting this annoying behaviour.. is there somthing I am missing.. shouldn't it just wrap the img exactly ?
the answer is due to the top <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "
Gothfunc
Dorward: ok no worries, this has been a good step forward :)
_Moe_
if I remove that part then that's resolved.. I am just to scared to remove it now
Dorward
_Moe_: Images are inline content. By default, they are vertically-aligned on the line of text. There is space below them for the descdenders you find on letters like g, y, j, and p.
_Moe_
Dorward.. but is there any decenders here ?
what letters, and how do I avoid this behaviour
Dorward
_Moe_: The space is always provided. Otherwise you have uneven line heights.
_Moe_
can I get around this ? because IE doesn't do this..
Dorward
_Moe_: Well ... if the _default_ vertical-alignment isn't to your pleasing then ... ?
deltab
remove all the text from the line
including the spaces
though if there's another way I'd like to hear it
_Moe_
deltab: I did that.. doesn't help... Dorward: thanks.. align='top' did the trick... although it is very misleading.. the align should not have to do with the content ... thanks for helping out
Dorward
If the alignment doesn't align the content ... what should it align?
deltab
how could it not? it's about aligning the content
Dorward
And use CSS for presentation.
deltab
_Moe_: so did the descender space disappear entirely, or did you just move it to the bottom?
hmm, I realise now the second part of that is meaningless
so, thank you
_Moe_
deltab: I don't know.. it seems as if the descenders where suddenly gone
preinheimer
I've got a table (actually showing tabular data, please don't kill me) as the left sidebar at: http://dev.wonderproxy.com/ I can't figure out why there's such a large gap between the cell background colour, and the table's right side
Omnipotent
Say, assuming I am an internet company/provider, is there a way to track a single email and see how many people get it?
nkuttler
Omnipotent: your server logs can tell you if they were delivered, but that doesn't mean it arrives in the receiver's inbox
preinheimer
define "Get it"
Windrose
No. You can track how many delivery points accept it, but nothing beyong that.
'beyond'
Omnipotent
preinheimer - how many people read it
preinheimer
you can do crap like put an image in the email that loads off a server, but even then people with that crap disabled wont show up
nkuttler
Omnipotent: no way to track that. you can use html mails with images etc, but that's not reliable
Omnipotent
nkuttler - so all these "xyz company tracks this mail and will give you 1$ for every mail you send" is crap right?
_W_
yes
nkuttler
omg
Windrose
Omnipotent: pure swindel.
Omnipotent
Thank you.
preinheimer
Seriously, that entire conversation was initiated by some spam crap?
I feel kind of let down to be honest.
Omnipotent
preinheimer - xD
Windrose
Well, we do offer a full money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with the channel .... :)
preinheimer
heh, I asked a stupid question an hour ago, still waiting on that one :)
nkuttler
preinheimer: i'd start by checking what those reset css styles do to tables
preinheimer
reset css styles?
Windrose
preinheimer: from the description there might be some padding/border/cellspacing issues.
pyther
Hi
preinheimer
Windrose: I'm with you that far
pyther
Why does td work and not th in this code sample: http://dpaste.com/138351/ ? What is the difference between td and th?
Windrose
pyther: not 'work'? One is a table cell, one is a table header.
pyther
Windrose, so a table header is not a table cell?
Dorward
One is a data cell the other is a header cell. Both are table cells.
Windrose
pyther: now you're getting philosophical :) Yes. It's a specific type of table cell.
pyther
so in theory I should be able to use <th> instead of <td> correct?